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deathpixie) wrote2008-03-26 01:29 pm
deathpixie) wrote2008-03-26 01:29 pm
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Fanfic 'feminism': The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
A few links popped up on various friendslists recently, so I thought I'd compile them for people to read.
The Good is from Jezrana, on Insane Journal, who I found via a [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com] post. Here, she brings some much needed sense to a very scary place.
The Bad: Dissenter (who seems to be the same [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com] who comments first on the next link below), and her essay on slash as misogynistic. Jezrana's post is in response to this, which is the same pseudo-intellectual twaddle as the next post:
The Ugly: [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com]'s post on Firefly as a propaganda vehicle for the male patriarchy, and in her comments states her belief that Joss Whedon rapes his wife, since anyone who wrote Firefly has to be the worst example of men ever.
Both Dissenter and _allecto_ have comment screening policies, in that they delete anything that contradicts their rather offensive drivel. I've always loathed this type of feminist, the sort that seems to believe the greatest sin anyone can commit is to be born male - if you have a penis, according to them, you have no redeeming qualities whatsoever. *grfs*
The Good is from Jezrana, on Insane Journal, who I found via a [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com] post. Here, she brings some much needed sense to a very scary place.
The Bad: Dissenter (who seems to be the same [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com] who comments first on the next link below), and her essay on slash as misogynistic. Jezrana's post is in response to this, which is the same pseudo-intellectual twaddle as the next post:
The Ugly: [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com]'s post on Firefly as a propaganda vehicle for the male patriarchy, and in her comments states her belief that Joss Whedon rapes his wife, since anyone who wrote Firefly has to be the worst example of men ever.
Both Dissenter and _allecto_ have comment screening policies, in that they delete anything that contradicts their rather offensive drivel. I've always loathed this type of feminist, the sort that seems to believe the greatest sin anyone can commit is to be born male - if you have a penis, according to them, you have no redeeming qualities whatsoever. *grfs*
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His own thesis is that: "Women’s inferiority – in fact, their malevolence -- is as ingrained in American popular culture as it is anywhere they’re sporting burkhas. I find it in movies, I hear it in the jokes of colleagues, I see it plastered on billboards, and not just the ones for horror movies. Women are weak. Women are manipulative. Women are somehow morally unfinished. (Objectification: another tangential rant avoided.) And the logical extension of this line of thinking is that women are, at the very least, expendable."
Implicitly he sees himself as fighting against that trend. This person basically goes a step farther and argues that he is intrinsically part of the mindset and he can't escape it even if he tries. (Presumably because he has the wrong plumbing)
P.S.
This is pretty much tantamount to me re-fighting old flame-wars on your dime. SO if you'd rather I nixed this and took this to my own LJ, let me know.
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But you're right - extremeism of any form is counter-productive, imo, because it only serves to alienate and infuriate those you're trying to get your message to. Mind you, I don't think _allecto_ is really trying to educate or illuminate - she's got the tone of someone wanting to cram her viewpoint down people's throats, regardless of what they might think.
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And the link to Whedon's essay is in my post above, but also here:-) ---
http://whedonesque.com/comments/13271
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And given they all comment on each other's posts, I think you're right about the preaching to the choir there. That kind of cliqueish self-congratulation always tarnishes an argument, imo, especially when you take steps to prevent a dissenting (pun not intended, hah!) opinion being presented.
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Which interestingly, is the part that makes me want to grab these two and bang their heads together. Because implying that men can't escape any of their (ostensibly) biologically-ordained gender behaviours implies that women can't, either, that humans are immutably hardwired with such behaviours, which is as ridiculous as it is depressing. If Joss is intrinsicially part of the mindset because he's male, then isn't she, as a female, intrinsically part of the mindset of marriage/babies/makeup/high heels/need-a-boyfriend?
It makes steam pour out of my ears, because I prefer to think that the human brain is more flexible than that.
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He argued that any study of the Middle East not written by an Arabic scholar will automatically be prejudiced and reflect the innate ethnocentrism and colonialist attitudes of the authors, because they can never escape the memetic environment where they were brought up.
It became fairly popular with a number of scholars studying minorities - ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, etc.
It's a very tempting world-view. "If you are not one of us, you can never fully relate, you can never fully understand and you can never fully transcend the original sin of your ethnicity, gender, etc."
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It was what always amused me about people who kept telling me I should write about what I knew rather then doing things like writing from the point of view of a World War 2 soldier (The story I had been writing at the time.) because I obviously had never been to war, so I wouldn't know what that was like.
In other words, people are dumb.
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She seems to be a fairly faithful follower of Andrea Dworkin, and thus legitimately part of the feminist movement.
OTOH, I have not kept up - has Dworkin been widely repudiated?
I do agree that a debate with her would be largely pointless. She concedes as much, by censoring the comments.
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(And there's a LOT of people who radically misunderstand Dworkin as well - she didn't actually say "all sex is rape", or even 'all heterosexual sex is rape')
But - she's not a Dworkin follower, she's a Dworkin FANATIC. There's a difference. Fanatics are only legitimate parts of anything in such that they're bad examples of it.
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I am less sure about the specifics of your argument.
Dworkin herself was a fanatic, I am not seeing this poster going any farther than she did. In fact it basically the same old world view, simply applied to a specific example.
As for being bashed - that was the case from the start, iirc. But she's still considered part of the feminist movement, albeit a radical one, no?
And there are still followers that reject the second wave, like she did.
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She was dialed up to eleven, yes, but a lot of her followers are even MORE So.
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I think the argument that Dworkin has been misunderstood re 'all sex is rape' is a fair cop.
But I trend toward the view that she has been purposefully ambiguous in her thesis. I think there's a very thin line between 'hetero sex is by nature a violent, penetrative act' to the simplification promoted by some of her followers (and critics).
Again, I think there are real parallels between her arguments, Whedon's and this poster. They both start with the assumption that the popular culture is permeated with bias against women, which in turn made the society shaped by that culture fundamentally flawed.
Dowrkin carefully limited her assertion that representation of sex in popular culture was tantamount to promotion of rape. But logically is the society is defined by that culture then...
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I think there's still a bias in pop culture against a lot of things (not just women) - I lean more towards Whedon's style of response then the crazytimepeople's. If you want something better, write it yourself.
(I am however, a lazy so and so, so all you get from me is rpg, fanfic and cupcakes.) But they're feminist cupcakes. Men and women can enjoy them equally.
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But to the point - anyone who gets this het up over fiction is clearly not serious about their actual convictions. If they were, they would instead be focusing on the very real issues in their community, instead of fictional issues on a cancelled TV show. "Joss Whedon is a horrible person!" - okay, sure. So what? What's he done? ... ... nothing? Okay then! Carry on being horrible!
Joss Whedon's guilty of a lot of things in his writing (namely shameless pandering to the fanbase to the detriment of actual characterization and plot) but I don't see the point in picking on his portrayal of women. The guy's responsible for one of the biggest female-empowerment shows in the history of television, for crying out loud. Sure, he comes across as so pro-woman in interviews that it's almost a transparent ploy to get chicks (really, dude. Just buy some ovaries on EBay already.) but he makes enjoyable television in the process.
The "feminist" complainer's got about as much grounds for complaint as the "BTVS was unfairly slanted aganst vampires!" crowd. I haven't seen them, but I'll bet they're out there. And just as wacko.
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Okay, I gotta climb on my soapbox here.
I like sex. I like it a whole lot. If I could have sex every single day I would. Hell, twice would be fantastic. I like sex.
Also, shockingly, I am female. I'm not sure if she subscribes to the "lie on your back and think of England" school of sexuality, or she's just one of those people that does not like sex a whole lot. I know several people like this, male and female. But the claim that a husband rapes his wife makes me throw up in my mouth a little. Believe me, there is a big BIG difference between consensual sex in a relationship and non-consensual. And to have someone dropping stuff like that just for shock value makes me want to throttle her. It's not a light matter, and it's not for usage in some dumb man-hating argument.
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But then again, the people who write like that just want to imagine hot boys fucking each other up the ass and don't know how to write anything actually engaging, so their opinions are pretty much worthless.
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To use 'feminist' as a description is really not accurate, because her views are far to the extreme of mainstream feminism, like saying al-Quida represents Islam.
People driven by ideology have no capacity for context, which is by and large where truth and understanding exist. Pity them and ignore them, because you won't ever change them.
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But yeah, agree with you there. For a long time I called myself an 'equalist' or 'humanist', because all the 'feminists' I'd met in university were of the separatist lesbian type who advocated consigning men to an inferior role. And I wasn't the only one of my peer group who thought like that. As you say, it hurts the cause.
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;)
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"Men are bastards."
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http://allecto.wordpress.com/2008/03/20/sex-positivity-leads-to-depression/
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But yeah. The circle of self-congratulation continues, I see.
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