"Sunday too far away..."

[deathpixie]

Ah, Sunday evening. Time to curl up in the beanbag with the computer on my lap, drink a cup of caramel tea and enjoy the lst of my weekend. Not an overly productive one - not in the practical sense, any way - but I have been writing, and talking to people, and burning CDs and went out for dinner with my dad. All good stuff.

It's been a thinking kind of weekend. Lots of questions, lots of answers, lots of thoughts. Memories. In a good way, mostly, although some of the memories are sad, or wistful. Wishing for things beyond my reach. But in all, I'm feeling good. Better. Quieter.

***

I don't understand this thinking in absolutes. Good vs Evil. Right vs. Wrong. There's always another viewpoint, another perspective, another reason for why something happens. And in a way, thinking in absolutes limits us, over-simplifies the world. Turns it into one of those child drawings, all one-dimensional and flat. Stops us from thinking, stops us from feeling. Stops us from seeing the answers, and also the problem.

I never want to be limited like that.

Comments

[d-benway.livejournal.com]

I tend to believe that there are seldom any clear answers, and that research mostly leads to better questions.

Yes and no...

[msss.livejournal.com]

I think there are some things that are absolutes. Paedophilia is wrong, to pick a really easy example. That said, there aren't very many of them. The world is too complicated.

Re: Yes and no...

[deathpixie]

Ah, but there's always another point of view. ;)

Take your example of paedophilia. Yes, it's wrong. But what if the person perpetrating it is themselves the victim of abuse? Research shows that many abused children grow up to become abusers. Should we puish these people as harshly as those who have no excuse for their actions? And what about those who are considered below-average in intelligence? I know of three cases off the top of my head involving abuse of children by people who are intellectually handicapped, to the point they are children themselves. And, for that matter, what about other children who abuse? It happens. Should we treat all child abusers the same way? Of course not. But that's what people would have us do, because they see only the absolute - "Paedophilia is wrong." Absolutes, as I said, restrict our thinking, and our options.

*grins* Just playing Devil's Advocate a bit. ;)

Re: Yes and no...

[msss.livejournal.com]

I didn't say we should treat them all the same way! :)

I don't think the circumstances of the offender make any kind of abuse any more right. Yes, it is more morally blameworthy if a fully facultied adult decided to deliberately twist the mind of a child in their care. But it's still wrong, whoever does it. No child should have to go through that. The appropriate treatment for the offender is separate and dependent on their circumstances, obviously. But it's a failing of our whole society that the child has suffered.

There are absolutes.

[seraangel.livejournal.com]

There are some that are inevitable. Night will always follow day. Or day will always follow night if you prefer. :) There is absolute good and absolute evil, it's just that most of the time the world deals in the greys. There's a reason it's said that you can't see God without dying. The human mind really isn't equipped to deal with an absolute, as much as we might like to think we think in them.

And that's truly the thing. With our limited minds there will never be absolutes. So, we can only think in greys. I find that somewhat limiting. We'll never find the answer because we always think that the answer must be more then simple.

When the truth is, to find the truth you must look for simple, rather then complex.

*grins* And yes, I am rather feeling philosophical tonight.

The meaning of life, the universe and everything is simplier then a babies cry, and yet we keep searching for it as though it were the biggest mystery in the world. We can't accept that it's already been solved countless times. And now, it isn't 42. :)

~B.

Re: There are absolutes.

[deathpixie]

There are some that are inevitable. Night will always follow day. Or day will always follow night if you prefer. :)

*grins* Ah, but which is it? Night follows day, day follows night? Even your absolute example has some leverage, some shift in perception. ;)

There is absolute good and absolute evil, it's just that most of the time the world deals in the greys.

This I disagree with. There is no such thing as absolute good, or absolute evil. There are always interpretations - it is argued that no good act is untainted by personal interest. There's always something 'in it' for the person doing it. And no evil act is committed simply out of a desire to be evil. There's always a reason, an explanation, and a lot of the time those reasons aren't evil in themselves. Some of the time there are even good reasons for what was done. And sometimes the whole thing is wrong, from beginning to end.

I can't believe in 'Evil', because to me, it removes choice. A person commits at heinous act, not because they are inherently Evil, because then they are obeying their nature and can't help theselves, but because they choose to do it. We can't have a criminal justice system based on "Because he's an evil bastard", because if some people are indeed evil, then punishment is useless, because they will never learn from their actions, and we start heading for the slippery slope of eugenics, in order to remove the "evil" gene.

There's a reason it's said that you can't see God without dying. The human mind really isn't equipped to deal with an absolute, as much as we might like to think we think in them.

*grins* My point exactly. People try and simplify the world, render it down to chunks they can handle. But the problem with that is, it over-simplifies their world maps, adn leads to sweeping generalisations that don't allow space for exceptions. And some people... to quote a line from Stephen King's The Stand "...(She) put three layers of varnish and one of quick-drying cement on (her) view of the world adn called it good." And that's a dangerous way of thinking, because no matter what evidence is presented to you to the contrary, you will contiue believing it. And that, my friends, leads to prejudice and bigotry and oppression because one side has Right on its side, and therefore everyone else is Wrong.

And that's truly the thing. With our limited minds there will never be absolutes. So, we can only think in greys. I find that somewhat limiting. We'll never find the answer because we always think that the answer must be more then simple.

And I think the opposite. Nothing is as it seems on face value, and as long as we close ourselves off from those greys, we will forever be restricted to those things we think are Right and Wrong. It's like having an unexplored country, but because you only look for the absolutes, there are large patches of that map that remain blank, because you never let your mind explore the possiblities.

When the truth is, to find the truth you must look for simple, rather then complex.

*grins* And yes, I am rather feeling philosophical tonight.

The meaning of life, the universe and everything is simplier then a babies cry, and yet we keep searching for it as though it were the biggest mystery in the world. We can't accept that it's already been solved countless times. And now, it isn't 42. :)

*nods* I'll agree about the searching thing - we spend our lives searching for what will make us happy, and will never find it, because as soon as you have that one thing, some other need arises. I guess what I was trying to say is that we should always keep our minds open to the possibilities, be ready to accept a different view. Too many people close their minds to that, and I think it's not just a tragedy for others, but for them as well. There's so much they miss.