Hmm

[deathpixie]

Funny how things travel in coincidences. Not a couple of days after a conversation with a friend about the way women are viewed as manipulative and somehow evil, Joss Whedon shares his thoughts.

I'm not entirely sure of the Womb Envy theory - my presonal theory is that it's a function of fear, of men in general (not any one specific man or group of men) being afraid of the impact women have on them, on their behaviour and the control they can weild through sex that leads to the 'evil' tag, but again, that's just a vague opinion and nothing to do with any of the actual men I know (with a couple of exceptions). It's something to think about, any way, the fact that 50% of the population is not only targeted as weak and morally reprehensible, but that that 50% also buys into it.

The article also raises for me the question of the power of the modern media in our society, and whether, with the glut of reality TV, we've become so used to viewing things as part of a giant television show or movie or game, that we don't stop to considering the actual reality of it. The empathy of it.

Heavy thinking before heading off for the traditional May 2-4 BBQ, this time at Johnny's place where we don't have to get caught in the rain. I'll leave you to it.

Comments

[deathpixie]

That would be why I consider myself a humanist, or an equalist, rather than a feminist. This whole attitude towards women and the way it's aided and abetted by women themselves, not only demeans women, it demeans men, reducing them to fearful, violent animals. I'm big on everyone being treated equally, regardless of gender, nationality, physical capability, or preference in hobbies - it's why the term 'Mundane' when applied to non-fanficcers always annoyed the crap out of me.

[resplendissante.livejournal.com]

asgljjhagraagfskjh

Dude, you just described yourself as a liberal feminist with a mild postmodern streak. :) I have to run (literally run) to work just now, but I absolutely hate the stigmatization of the word 'feminist' as some kind of man-hating bitch who doesn't care about anything but ousting men from power. I actually agree with you - you're about where I am, politically speaking, there - but that perception of feminism is a gross misrepresentation of what feminism is, and since it comes from everyone's favourite neo-conservatives (Ann Coulter, Pat Buchanan, Rush Limbaugh, etc, etc) I feel... kinda obliged to say something. Feminists believe that gender is a legitimate lens through which to view inequalities in society. From there, they start to differ, and yes, some of them believe pretty crazy things, but a majority of them? Not so much. They'd almost unanimously agree with you that other divisions are legitimate and appropriate, even if that's not what they can look at without generalizing too much (my academic bent comes out here).

(Sorry to be nitpicky in your journal. It's not personal, I swear. Just one of those sore points for me, and I know it's kinda rude to say so, and I don't mean it badly or ANYTHING, but it makes me really sad to see it.)

[seraangel.livejournal.com]

I think for me, it's because of feminists like Germane Greer that I'm iffy about calling myself one. At least, Germane Greer as she is now, I believe there may have been a time when she wasn't crazy. But I guess it's the same as with feminism as it is with anything else. The crazy types are always the loudest and tend to spoil it for everyone else. :)

[resplendissante.livejournal.com]

I do feminist political theory and I've never even READ Germaine Greer, to be honest. Feminism isn't one ideology - there are a lot of streams, but the mainstream is exactly as Rossi described herself: Equality is an issue, particularly legal equality, but recent developments have made clear that gender is only one of the divisions which requires attention. I'd call that liberal feminism, because it fits in the general area... Radical feminism (which means trying to get to the root of oppression, not "scary evil feminism") has so many fragments that I'm loath to call it its own stream, to be honest, but that's where some of the more intense people come from.

People like Germaine Greer come up in the mainstream (conservative) media to discredit reasonable feminists, IMO. And that media succeeds, because yeah, some people are crazy. But do we automatically assume that Rush Limbaugh speaks for all conservatives, or that Michael Moore speaks for all liberals?

(Sorry. SORRY. This makes me foam at the mouth and that's totally obvious - maybe I am one of the crazy feminists after all. :)

[seraangel.livejournal.com]

*grins* No need to appoligise. I'm fully able to admit that I have a lot to learn about the world and that includes being open to changing my opinions when given enough evidence that I should do so.

If feminist means fighting for equalitity and for people to be treated with respect no matter what gender,social status or anything else they are, then I'm a feminist. :)

[deathpixie]

Apologies. I wasn't meaning to stigmatise feminism, but focus on the fact it's not just gender equality we need, but _human_ equality. Phrased it badly, obviously. :(

[resplendissante.livejournal.com]

Noooo, no apologizing for the things that make me foam at the mouth even though honestly I should be less sensitive just imagine me saying all of this in one breath and we'll be fine. :)

(Seriously, I can be a loser sometimes. I shouldn't've ranted at you.)

[deathpixie]

You're not the only one to take offence, so obviously I was offensive. I should have just turned off the computer today.

[resplendissante.livejournal.com]

It wasn't really offence? I know I worded it too strongly - I was just very reactionary today, and to be more honest than usual, that's because it's the first day I've been off the Ativan since Friday (I think) and it made me too... probably too harsh. I'm really sorry, I really didn't mean to yell at you - especially since we fundamentally agree. I tend to get worked up over semantics even though it's not always very important, and I think I probably misread your intent anyway.

But hon, you know I respect you. And like I said, we do agree. I just flew off the handle a little. The feminist label's one that I feel really strongly about, but I've had the benefit of really involving myself in what it means and what it is (and can be, and isn't).

[resplendissante.livejournal.com]

'more honest than usual' - meaning, I wouldn't usually throw around my medication like it's an excuse, which it's not. It just made me jumpy and I didn't control that too well. :/

[philf.livejournal.com]

See, this is why I wish someone would invent the technology to hyperlink verbal conversation, so when someone says something like 'feminism', I could just click on a link and have a word-balloon materialise above their heads with a definition of what they mean, 'cos half the time what someone else means by a word and what I mean are subtly different to just enough of a degree that we end up arguing over something we basically agree on.

It's very confusing ;)

[pollymel.livejournal.com]

You, I'd consider a feminist. ;)

[resplendissante.livejournal.com]

God, that would help SO MUCH. :) I totally agree with you. :)

[(Anonymous)]

*grins* Only I could see it all going horribly wrong, or someone finding a way to make a virus work with it so what you actually got was a whole slab of text about cats that no one really understands, and then you have a big arguement about whether you've been holding in the power button for long enough for the thing to bloody well turn off.

[seraangel.livejournal.com]

And that anonymous comment was me...having once again forgotten to log on. Oh! I had a thought about making puppy dog eyes at Rossi to take up indoor climbing after DexCon, depending on how long after DexCon you're staying, would you be up for that?

[seraangel.livejournal.com]

*nods* Hmm, I like those terms. I think one of the reasons I always refused to call myself a feminist is exactly that reason. The fact that I think we should all be treated equal and that I don't consider myself in some way superior to someone else just because I happen to have a womb and they don't.

I think everyone has their own talents and skill set. There's no need for the whole 'I'm better then you' stuff that goes on sometimes.

[pollymel.livejournal.com]

See, I always wonder about that. In what way are you not a feminist? Do you believe that which particular set of genitalia you own should influence your career? Do you believe that the particular set of hormones that influenced your pre-birth or adolescent physical development have made you incomparable to someone influenced by the other set?

I have never been of the belief that being a feminist means that I think that women are better than men (and so not going into genitalia, medically that's more complicated that I want to mention) just that it meant that women aren't worse. As a result of this I wonder why it is that women get paid less, are the social givers of EEEVIL! aka sexuality, and have all of that other cultural baggage.

Being feminist has not, as far as I can figure or have experienced, meant that I am blind to other forms of discrimination, and that I have used up my "But why are there differences in how these two groups of people are treated" quota. I didn't even know there was a quota. Why can't I be a feminist and liberal, gay-rights, environmentalist, inclusionist, human/civil rights advocating person?

And to Rossi: How can you look at all human equality without looking at gender? Sure, and also looking at *spits* race (I hate that word, my inner scientist gets grumpy when I use it), language, age, abilities and disabilities, sexuality, physical and social groups.

You know I'm not angry at you guys, but I get so tired of seeing the fact that it is culturally unacceptable for women to be feminist. Let alone men. It's insane that it's considered risque for straight men to call themselves feminist. Frankly I consider that a sign that more people should be.

[(Anonymous)]

See my above comment to Lauren. *grins* And I think it'd take us running over your cat or something to get you mad at us. And then you'd be calling us on the phone to rant at us, not doing it in a journal entry. :)

[seraangel.livejournal.com]

And that was me, by the by. *smacks hand against forehead* Forgot to log in.

[pollymel.livejournal.com]

Heh. And no one's run over my cat for years. Plus you'd have to be here for that.

...

You should come and visit and not run over my cat.

[seraangel.livejournal.com]

*grins* When I have money and annual leave to take, I believe I shall do so. I'm currently saving for a new computer, and just paid for my trip to DexCon so the funds are somewhat scarce right now. However, that shall not always be so!

[deathpixie]

*sighs* Forget it, I said the wrong thing, I'm too damn sick of people yelling at each other and at me today to argue.

[pollymel.livejournal.com]

Dude, opinions aren't the wrong thing. I'm sorry you're so stressed today, I feel strongly about this issue but wasn't planning for a fight either.

Who's been yelling? My life is one of low level atmospheric bitching and moaning. Not just by me, if you can believe it.

[frito-kal.livejournal.com]

It's just because the term's been stolen by the crazy people that so many of us are reluctant to use it for the casual day to day "Hey! I'd like to make as much money as a guy doing my job and quit assuming I'm a slut if I like giving blowjobs, can we have that too?"

In some cases, it's picking battles. I'm tired of having to explain what version of feminism I mean when I say "I'm a feminist."

[pollymel.livejournal.com]

It's more people who say that they're not, rather than people who don't mention it. I'm just confused that any woman (and really, most men) can say in that tone of confused horror "Oh, I'm not a feminist." which no one here has said, but it bugs me. It is not the equivelant of being a leper, dudes.

Also, I'm a bit of a reclaim the language kinda person. It doesn't come up often, but if it does then I say a quick "I like earning money and not having to give up my job if I get preggers, how about you?"

Maybe I deal with non-argumentative people more. Others have mentioned that they've had people tell them that feminists have made things worse. Which makes me cry.